Curse

Lord Furious · May 17, 2005, 04:09 AM // 04:09

This might sound like a whine post. But I was following the W/E build from the website. I'm now level 14, just got my Conjure flame. I've got a flaming dragon sword, Swordsmanship at 11, fire at 6. I can not still... toe to toe with pretty much any class, and I'm a warrior.

I've even put everything into tactics / swords... what's the point? Everyone I fight can heal themselves, and there's nothign as a tank I can do. When I get to 20, I'm gonna have to be like everyone else and go w/mo or w/r if I want to pvp... doesn't seem fair, but that's just the way the cookies gonna crumble...

Shaubarak · May 17, 2005, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Conjure W/E does fine in PvP, you don't need a self heal. Just focus on dealing damage.

Forget tactics. If you're looking to be a conjure W/E go Weapon/strength/element.

Selene · May 17, 2005, 06:44 AM // 06:44

It's really about figuring out your role on your team. A W/E spec'ed for fire isn't a tank at all, unless there is a heavy tactics investment. That's all about damage, damage, damage. Someone else should be doing most of the healing.

If you're talking about random PvP, then not having self-healing is a problem. It's random chance whether your team will have a healer or not. That's why having some sort of self-heal is really helpful for random.

Xavz · May 17, 2005, 02:45 PM // 14:45

I'd take a Nec, Mes, or Ele sub over Monk or Ranger any day on a Warrior. They're much more useful in organized PvP except for ressurects, but those will be interrupted by any team with a competent Mesmer anyways. Having skills like Rend Enchantments, Blood is Power, Backfire, or Conjures on a Warrior is a godsend.

Lord Furious · May 18, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

So most of my frustration will be fixed when I get to level 20 and do organized pvp. I guess arena battles are the devil.

Zeru · May 18, 2005, 04:29 AM // 04:29

War/monk is a great pvp combo but not in the way you're thinking.

Investigate smiting prayers instead

RepinsMirg · May 18, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Also W/E are really good tanks if you just use Armor of Earth and Magnetic Aura from the E side combined with the Tactics line and knights armor and absobtion runes you will be extermly hard to kill.

kalaris · May 18, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

17 W/E (sword/fire) here and around the point where you are at, I too got a bit discouraged..

You prolly have a 15-22 fire weapon and conjure flame, but are you also using frenzy/flurry?

does your 15-22 have +15% damage in a stance? if not get one... its just sick.. if the target is on you, use flurry (flurry lowers your damage about 15% but since its a stance you get 15% back plus swing faster) and if the target is ignoring you use Frenzy which is a stance(+15% more damage) that makes you swing faster... so ownage.

W/E{fire} Makes about the worst tank of all warriors but say running into a crowd using Phoenix, then inferno stacks up about 200ish damage AoE for 25 mana with fire 10 In PvE thats Devistating to most groups of monsters, you run in and soften the whole group, then continue swinging away.

The major downside to W/E{fire} is that you have no way of healing youself, so you really have to trust your healer, which sometimes bites your in the arse, I had a healer let me die of poison several seconds AFTER a fight ended last night...

Also you're quite explosive... litterally and figurativly , you run in and pop off all your damage, then you swing away waiting for energy to come back... And hoping you don't die in the process... but you make battles end... really fast.

A W/E{earth} on the otherhand is one of the hardest damn things to kill, provided you go earth/tactics/weapon you have a way to heal (healing signet) loads of extra armor and wards... its kinda nifty, your damage will suffer greatly, but your group will love you.

Stick with the W/E a bit longer, besides if you're unhappy once you get to Ascension you can change your Secondary.

TiC · May 18, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

I was previously a W/E before changing to W/Mo after ascension, and it was the best thing I ever did. In PvP I was constantly getting absolutely destroyed, and while I dished out massive damage with my fire skills, I couldn't compete with anything that healed itself. It was frustrating to say the least.

I then changed to W/Mo, invested in healing/smiting, got a few elite skills, and now I've found a few strats that work so much better, that it makes me wonder why I chose W/E in the first place.

Zeru · May 18, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Don't base your pvp character off of arena battles, seriously. In those, yeah self-healing war monks are good because 90% of the people suck and are uncoordinated but if you are going to play real pvp there's not much point in making a self-contained tank. Warriors are generally among one of the last targeted, so your goal should be to inflict as most damage as possible in that time and rely on your healing/protection monks for cover if they stupidly decide to attack you early.

RepinsMirg · May 18, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I think fire is the worst thing you can do as a warrior if your going E. You are all ready dishing out some serious damage with warrior skills so you might as well use something that will either 1) Make you really hard to kill, 2) Makes it really hard for people to run away and or add some more versatility. Both Earth and Air fit into number one while both Earth and Water fit into number two. You don't really have the energy to be using fire spells as a means to add some dps even with gladiator armor. It isn't really a matter of energy pool, even though that is some of it, but more of a matter of energy regeneration. If your going to choose something like fire you are going to need to be able to do more then just a couple spells every once in awhile for your damage to even matter because after you run out of energy any damage you did over that very brief period of time will just be healed away. But the other options for the E side like Air, Water, and Earth all have means to make you more effective without reallying to much on your energy pool.

shawn23233 · May 19, 2005, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Furious

This might sound like a whine post. But I was following the W/E build from the website. I'm now level 14, just got my Conjure flame. I've got a flaming dragon sword, Swordsmanship at 11, fire at 6. I can not still... toe to toe with pretty much any class, and I'm a warrior.

I've even put everything into tactics / swords... what's the point? Everyone I fight can heal themselves, and there's nothign as a tank I can do. When I get to 20, I'm gonna have to be like everyone else and go w/mo or w/r if I want to pvp... doesn't seem fair, but that's just the way the cookies gonna crumble...

Isnt this a "team" tactics game? I am new, but it seems the classes are designed to highlight one another in a "team" so for example everyone healing themselves would seem terribly wasteful?

kalaris · May 19, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by RepinsMirg

I think fire is the worst thing you can do as a warrior if your going E. You are all ready dishing out some serious damage with warrior skills so you might as well use something that will either 1) Make you really hard to kill, 2) Makes it really hard for people to run away and or add some more versatility. Both Earth and Air fit into number one while both Earth and Water fit into number two. You don't really have the energy to be using fire spells as a means to add some dps even with gladiator armor. It isn't really a matter of energy pool, even though that is some of it, but more of a matter of energy regeneration. If your going to choose something like fire you are going to need to be able to do more then just a couple spells every once in awhile for your damage to even matter because after you run out of energy any damage you did over that very brief period of time will just be healed away. But the other options for the E side like Air, Water, and Earth all have means to make you more effective without reallying to much on your energy pool.

Eh My energy pool is 38, and I do fine.

Here is my Setup for PvE

+10 flame artifact, gladiators armor, 15-22 flame sword with 15% stance damage

Sever - Gash - Conjure flame - Flurry/frenzy - Inferno - phoenix - Pure Strike {open}

I'm still missing my Elites, and in one-on-one combat, I'd trade phoenix for immolate...

I cause pain... alot of pain, pair me with a pure elementalist, and we can drop 6-7 monsters in about 20 seconds....

Its not the most efficent setup, by any means, and I do have trust issues with healers now (since they appearently don't like to heal) but battles end very fast, my damage output is great.

I don't see why anyone would think that doing more damage with fire is a bad thing?

Yes earth makes you a bit more beefy, and Air/water get to toss around status affects, but your enemy can't damage you if you disable his life-bar =P

BUT!

I did go earth for a group last night, and it worked pretty good, I noticed my damage was really really really really low (compaired to W/E{fire}) but since the group had 4 monks and some elementalists I was ok with it =P

I'd say that W/E is a good versitile choice since you can either be a leet damage dealer or a solid tank for just moving around some attribute points.

Epinephrine · May 19, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawn23233

Isnt this a "team" tactics game? I am new, but it seems the classes are designed to highlight one another in a "team" so for example everyone healing themselves would seem terribly wasteful?

It is terribly wasteful. The more efficiently the energy is used to convert into damage (or negative damage, as healing) the better, so your heals should come from a Monk Primary with high DF and Healing. The problem is that the Arenas throw random groups together, and you may or may not end up with a healer on your side. With very little time to plan strategies and a random composition builds that are independent are preferable, though not optimal. Since Wa/Mo can work on its own it is a very successful Arena player. It is entirely different in organised groups - I don't even carry a self heal if I have one of my guild healers along. Seriously, I just trust that he'll take care of it, and that frees a slot for me to do a bit more damage. I do pack a defensive stance to reduce the pressure on him, but if we both use energy healing me one of us will end up wastng energy which is bad for the team - first because my heals aren't as efficient (well, in general - in fact as a ranger I can hit his efficiency for myself, though it takes more time than his does, so that's 3 seconds less attacking going on) and the fact that too often I will trigger a self heal about when he heals me, so all that extra healing energy is wasted, and that could cost us a fight - I've triggered my Troll's Unguent and seen my health pop back up to full after I start casting it too many times - there's his or my energy wasted, however you look at it.

RepinsMirg · May 19, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

I find having high amount of energy as a warrior is useless past the first part of the battle after that it becomes a matter of energy regen.

ZigZag Rollmeister · May 19, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I'm running a W/Mes build right now, and so far I'm loving it. Empathy and Backfire do a great job of softening enemies while you're busy killing someone else. Sometimes I include Ether Feast when it's PvE and we dont bring a monk. All in all, a very satisfying complement.

Jackell · May 19, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

IMO, If you want to stay in the arena's, W/Mo is a good choice, that's their place. But in organized pvp W/Mo's aren't as useful, you should have a dedicated healer/protection monk that can take care of that for you, and you should focus on doing damage instead. Wa/Mo's can be effective in GvG with smiting, but they won't be as effective if they focus on healing, and W/E do a lot more damage. If your healers good, a W/E is a very strong asset.

Keep in mind, arena matches with PUGs and organized PvP are different worlds.

Adacia Calla · May 19, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I recreated my PvP char, W/N is scary.

WNxTyphoon · May 19, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

I like R/W more than W/R

Expertise > Strength.

Once you start playing in real PvP, you should focus solely on damage.

RepinsMirg · May 20, 2005, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Wouldn't that mean strength would be better?